Speaker 1
Hi, I’m Doctor Mary Newstrom.
Speaker 2
And I’m Dawn Morningstar, welcome to Soul Fire Sisters, a sacred space where we ignite women’s inner fire, awaken their truth, and share soulful conversations that inspire, heal, and empower.
Speaker 1
Each episode we dive deep into themes of self discovery, intuition, feminine wisdom, and spiritual growth, guided by raw stories, fierce honesty, and a shared desire to live boldly and authentically.
Speaker 2
Whether you’re on a healing journey, seeking deeper connection, or ready to rise in your power, you are not alone.
Speaker 1
Dawn Morningstar, which is her given name, has been a Women’s Self Empowerment Coach for 37 years, is the award-winning author of Venerable Women, Transform Ourself.
Transform the World is a former radio talk show host, a podcast host, Ted X Speaker, the creator of Radiant Face 18 and Co founder of New World Women.
Speaker 2
Doctor Mary Newstrom is an internationally known shamanic teacher, spiritual minister, and a keynote speaker.
She founded Zenith High, LLC and created Spirit Flower, a shamanic study program for women.
She’s committed to helping women and men develop a strong sense of purpose as they examine and understand how to stand clearly in their power.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the sisterhood, your soul showed up for a.
Speaker 2
Reason Welcome Soul Fire Sisters.
Today we’re exploring the idea of the good girl, what it means to be a good girl, where that good girl came from, and whether being a good girl is helping us or holding us back.
So we’re going to be answering the question who decided what makes a woman good, and why did we ever agree to it?
Speaker 1
Wow.
So if we look at this as a soulful, energetic perspective, what happens to our light when we shrink to fit expectations?
Well, we we all know that basically that means we pull in.
We are not being our authentic self, we’re actually hiding.
And so being a good girl might not be all that it’s cracked up to be because the fact that you aren’t living your souls purpose, you’re not living your authentic self.
Who is the good girl, Don?
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, I think many of us learned it early.
Early on.
It’s the, you know, the archetype of the good girl is she’s very compliant.
She’s polite, she’s pleasing, self sacrificing.
She avoids conflict at any and in any situation.
I find myself, because of my Catholic upbringing, I find myself with my hands folded neatly in my lap because that’s what I was told to.
A good girl does that and she sits with her ankles together.
You know, I mean, it’s just so crazy.
Of course that was a long time ago, but you get the reason reasoning why the good girl’s been trained to seek approval.
She wants approval from her family members, her culture, her Co workers, her religion, and sometimes she’s even trying to get approval from herself about herself.
Speaker 1
Oh, absolutely.
You know, I can think of too, that when I was growing up, where the good girl archetype was laid on me was more of how I was enthusiastic or how I was exploring explaining myself.
And when I did that enthusiastically, I was always getting the comment, well, don’t, don’t be hysterical about this.
Don’t get hysterical.
And then I noticed, well, they’re not saying that about my brothers and I, I was the only girl with three brothers.
The other thing is too, is that my and my mom, my mom was a feminist.
So I it was just kind of she was kind of like that was the the thing in the times was more of the stereotypes, but she was a feminist.
And when I raised, you know, raised my hand and said to her, Hey, how come I’m the only one that has to do things in the kitchen?
She tried to rotate things with my brothers, but but they they weren’t bright enough, I guess, to understand how to empty a dishwasher or wash dishes.
It was it was crazy, but expectations.
The main thing was that I want to bring up is that hey, don’t, don’t get hysterical when you’re when you’re explaining yourself.
And that I’ve had to work through.
I definitely had to work through.
Speaker 2
Those are really great examples.
And if I’m not mistaken, I believe that the core or the etymology of the word hysterical has to do with womb.
It had to do with, yeah, maybe you can look that up.
I don’t know.
But it has to do with women being hysterical, you know, being emotional.
Speaker 1
That’s why I would I’d like to know if the listeners have ever heard it used in reference to a male Never, never never.
Speaker 2
Ever.
No, no, they’re being assertive, they’re being commutative, they’re being this, they’re being, you know, forceful, confident, but never hysterical.
That is, has been saved for us.
Speaker 1
I don’t hear no one uses that would get with me now, but of course people are blown away with my determination and my energy use.
Different words, I’m sure, but.
Speaker 2
Yes, exactly.
Well, a good girl example that I have is when I was a junior in high school, I went to an all girls Catholic High School in Baltimore and we had a nun who was in charge of both the student council and she was the disciplinarian for the school.
I saw those as conflicting roles because student council is where you want to create new things and try out new things and set school policy.
And here she was in charge of it and really shut down a lot of things that we wanted to do.
And so I was always taught by my father to always speak up if you see something wrong or injustice occurring in front of you.
And so I put a small little 3 by 5 card on the bulletin board saying anyone who thinks this is a conflict show up in the school cafeteria 3:00 on so and so day, about 150 girls showed up from my school.
And so I had the microphone and I just said, you know, I thought it was wrong and, you know, that we just needed, you know, separate moderators for those 22 roles and, and I was very respectful.
Well, the principal called me into the office and called my father and said my father had to come and pick me up.
And they were talking about expelling me from the school and and so the I’ll never forget this, the principal said to my father, and how are you going to punish her, Mr. Morningstar?
He said, I’m not going to punish her.
I’m going to reward her.
He said, I taught my daughter to always stand up.
So there’s an example of thank goodness my father saw being a good girl as a different thing than this all girls Catholic High School.
You don’t speak up.
You, you just, you go along with things and that’s religion and Catholicism anyway, overarching anyway, as you don’t question things, you just go along with it as it is.
So that’s the story that came to mind for me and.
Speaker 1
You know, every time we suppress our truth, you know, we shrink energetically.
We shrink and you can actually, I, I, I know Don that you notice too that women just don’t take up as much room as guys cuz we’re told we’re not valued.
In some ways it’s like take up as less room, don’t weigh very much, be as small as possible.
And that’s really what happens when we’re told to be a good girl and we follow those rules.
Now out nature, if talking about nature based spirituality in nature there the squirrel running around in your backyard is not wondering, Gee, how do I become a lion?
No, it’s just thinking how do I survive this winter and get whatever acorns or whatever it’s eating?
But it’s just I I’m trying to be the best squirrel possible.
And so when we when we shrink our energy, we’re really shrinking our authentic self and who we are meant to be.
And I know many of you are looking at what’s my soul’s purpose, and you need to expand your energy for that to happen.
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
You make such a great point.
The comedian Margaret Cho talked about that when she was getting up on stage and she was being criticized for being what was considered overweight.
And she did this whole beautiful talk on the idea of women being told don’t take up too much space.
And I referred to me with my hands crossed, very genteel, you know, in my lap and keep my ankles together and, you know, just sit demurely, you know, And what, what, how do males generally sit?
Legs open, arms spread out, taking up as much space as they want to.
And I don’t mean to generalize with gender, but I’m just referring back to what I have experienced and what society tells people to do right and they allow.
Speaker 1
Them to take space.
Actually, I have a story I’ve got to.
Speaker 2
I want to hear it.
Speaker 1
But I, I had upgraded on a flight to what what do they call it?
Comfort class or whatever, you know, a little bit more space and, and sure as you know, sure as shit next to me.
It’s like a bodybuilder.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And so, but it was a guy and so he was like he was half in my so here I paid extra money to have a big nicer leg room and seat whatever.
And but his attitude, because he was a male and it was me that he could sit half in my seat.
I the whole time kept telling him to move.
I said, I don’t know what’s going on here, but you need to get into your seat.
So when, by the way, I don’t think it’d ever come under the category good girl, because if people are if people are doing stuff like that, I’m just and and it’s usually, you know, not women.
It’s usually not women or we you talk once and they adjust whatever they’re doing.
But actually with him, I was, he had, he had to fly the whole time with like his holding his arms together because he, he was, he was a big guy.
He wasn’t overweight.
He was a bodybuilder.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1
So Oh my God, I just remembered that story.
I needed to share that.
Speaker 2
Oh my God, I love it.
I absolutely love it.
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, you know, it’s like in order to be talking about this good girl thing, we also need to talk about the rules that we’re told that make us a good girl or a bad girl, right?
Who made the rules?
That’s what I want to Who made these rules?
Well, in a historical and cultural lens, patriarchy, the P word patriarchy, these patriarchal structures shaped what good meant for a woman.
And it all boils down to one thing, and that’s control.
It is to control.
Speaker 1
Women.
Speaker 2
Because women are powerful beyond measure.
And it’s frightening.
And So what do you do when you are one who, as patriarchy does, feels the need to have control over things you need or needs to be in charge of things.
You need to control them.
And so, you know, And so that power needs to be diminished somehow, you know, and we’ll talk in a minute about what power, what we think power means.
But you know that that goodness was obedience, silence, service.
And I, I want to be very clear, I am a, the number one fan of being of service.
I live my life in service, but I live my life in service from a full well.
And I do it with causes and things I believe in.
I don’t do it just because somebody expects it of me or there’s nobody else in the room to do it, and you know.
Speaker 1
What I want to question that our piece it in just and here you know exchanging ideas like when the women got burnt at the stake for being witches.
It had nothing to do with any weird witch stuff, but you know, hey, WIC is fine.
It had to do with power the.
Speaker 2
Power and the knowledge.
The power and the knowledge.
Speaker 1
The power and the knowledge.
This is why those women burned and a lot, by the way, there’s a lot of thoughts.
We carry the DNA of our past lives and so on.
And I, I interact with a lot of women that have that ingrained in them that I can’t be too out there cuz I, you know, I’m going to be shot down, burned or whatever.
I encourage every woman to really break out of that.
And that’s what we’re talking about and why Donna and I are doing this podcast.
Speaker 2
Absolutely, Mary.
Speaker 1
Absolutely, yeah.
If you’re getting triggered, really look inward and think what where’s that coming from?
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
And that’s one of the reasons that I love New World Women so much, because we are finding safety in numbers, so to speak.
Like, for example, in those olden times when women were being burned, as you said, not because of doing witchy things, which I’m totally into, you know, and accept Wicca, love Wicca actually, but it was more because they were powerful and knowledgeable and that was being shut down.
Plus, they also owned property and guess who benefited when they were killed?
You know?
So anyway, that’s a story for another day it.
Speaker 1
Might be another.
Speaker 2
Podcast, I think that’s going to be another episode, you know, but where I’m going with this is it can be frightening if you have never been able to stand up and be your own version of the good girl, not the good girl version that is has been thrust upon you.
It’s if you’re doing that on your own, it can feel frightening.
But when you’re in a group of women who all understand this, and like you mentioned, Mary, about the DNA, that’s it’s in our energetic DNA that if we speak up, we could have our tongues cut out, you know, or be burned at the stake or whatever.
And so, but when we’re in a group of women who understand these ideas and are able to support one another, it’s easier to stand up for ourselves and stand in our power.
And when we examine the roots of all of these rules, we see that the rules were not made by the women living under them.
Speaker 1
Who would make these rules that that we I mean, that tell us we have to starve ourselves and we have to be meek.
No one in their right mind, I mean.
Speaker 2
No, Yes.
And Mary and I were talking before we started recording, asking, you know, is this going to be edgy enough?
You know, talking about these things.
And the very fact that we question this and have answers that we come up with each and each of you are coming up with, that makes it edgy, that makes it worth examining.
So the moment that you ask who made this role, you are reclaiming your sovereignty and power totally.
And, you know, some of the roles are so outdated, they should come with like a museum label or.
Speaker 1
Something like that.
The laws on the books and some of these states that women can’t wear pants.
Oh, I got I got another story I want to hear.
Speaker 2
It I want to.
Speaker 1
Hear it.
I actually did some legislative work when I was a lot younger and I I needed to talk to the state representative that I was volunteering for.
I never got paid.
It wasn’t paid.
But anyways, I ran onto the floor of the representatives here in Minnesota with pants and she looked at me, said, my God, you can’t be here.
You’re wearing pants.
Women have the weird dresses.
I’m like, what?
You think that’s changed?
I don’t really know.
I think he’s like, you got to get out of here.
They could, you know, you could get really in trouble.
This was a big deal.
I still remember that.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
And, you know, it’s like, it’s like a series of these things that happened over our lifetime starting early in childhood.
No wonder we have to really take a look at it and say, OK, let, let’s have some awareness around this, you know, and you know, the, the, the thing to think about is which rules are we still consciously following?
And how can we break them in ways that allow us to really stand up as our true and authentic selves?
Speaker 1
Well, and you know, I, I want to say though, like I had just remembered that one.
Unfortunately, my reaction was like, what?
But someone might have reacted going, oh, OK, then I’m going to run out and and put a dress on.
The key thing, though, is this.
I don’t understand.
It’s the the key thing is that people, if something’s triggering you is to understand where did that come from?
We all have a long history.
That’s what I all I’m trying to say is that the fact that we have a history that’s embedded in US.
Speaker 2
Is so true, so.
Speaker 1
Very true.
OK, so the the thing, the one of the things is the more you are your authentic self, the more you are living in harmony and balance.
You’ll bring your frequency up.
And I know we talked about that a lot on another podcast.
So we won’t do all that, but also anytime, and I know women in particular and I don’t, guys can feel this way too, but we are really feeling drained and tired.
That when you are not in flow, when you are not your authentic self, when you’re going against the current, walking against, you know, the wind coming at you, you’re going to be feeling drained.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
And so that you want to, when you’re thinking of what rules you’re trying to fit into is you’re on the side that you want to be your authentic self.
And that will help you feel better too, and more healing as well.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Well, and you know, speaking from a tender place, I know that many people who were teaching us these roles, showing us these roles, trying to enforce these roles.
They thought they were protecting us.
They thought they were helping us.
They really did.
They thought that by keeping us in line and you know, toeing the line as they say, that they were helping us to not get hurt or criticized or whatever.
So I understand where it came from, but it is outdated and it’s time for this to to shift and only we can shift it.
Speaker 1
And you know, I think Don too, is it was in place because women were to be taken care of and how are you going to get a man?
And all that is changing is changed.
And that’s just how it was.
It was like, well, who’s going to take care of these women?
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Well, that’s another episode too, and we’ll we’ll get into that.
So authenticity is the new spiritual discipline.
It’s not rebellion, it’s alignment with our.
Speaker 1
Higher selves.
Speaker 2
And you know, self-care and boundaries are forms of energetic hygiene.
That’s how I see it.
And I love this quote by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich more than I can say.
And that quote is well behaved women rarely make history.
Well behaved women rarely make history because they are generally going against the rules.
So yeah.
Speaker 1
And breaking rules doesn’t mean chaos.
We are not talking about chaos.
I think we’ve been pretty clear at that.
We’re saying be, be yourself, speak your truth, stand in your own power, standing up to patriarchy and saying no to bullshit when it’s shit.
But really compassion for yourself and saying understanding which rules need to burn away so your soul can breathe.
I’m going to say which rules of yours need to burn away so your soul can breathe.
Speaker 2
I love that, Mary.
That’s really a beautiful visual and it speaks deeply to me.
Each time we choose authenticity over approval, we’re rewriting the code of what’s possible for women, and this gives permission to other women to rise up and live as their true selves.
When we do this, it’s yay.
We’re doing it for ourselves, but we’re also modeling it for other women, which is really great.
And not every role is bad.
As I had said before, some provide safety and structure.
You know, I mean, driving rules are there for a reason, and they’re helpful.
And I’m very grateful when people follow them, including me.
Except sometimes I do have a little bit of a lead foot on when I’m on the highway.
But that’s for, you know.
Anyway, the key is consciousness, and it all boils down to awareness, simply being aware of when we are, you know, trying to fit into that good girl mold.
And when we have decided this is my idea of the good girl or this is my idea of the sovereign woman, however you think of it or want to say it.
So I’ll ask each of you, what role would you like to gently or even boldly rewrite in the this year or in the new year, which we’re just, you know, a couple months away from a month and a half away from right now.
But be thinking about that.
What rule no longer serves you that you need to break in order to stand up in your own power?
Speaker 1
I I would think many of us would be boundaries or saying no.
Maybe someone someone’s asking you to go out, hang out and you want to read your good, a good book or watch something on TV and or maybe it is you want to head out and they don’t.
So it’s really that.
But the good girl energy can sneak back in by us playing with the rules and and it can show up as guilt.
Oh, holidays are coming.
So over giving now.
Of course, you know, we Don and I are not throwing shade on anybody or each other.
So we understand that sometimes we all have to maybe do a few things we don’t want to, but we’re talking about overall.
Think of this as the overall picture, you know, staying quiet when your intuition is screaming.
Know about an idea, a project, or even this is what I experienced when I was in corporate America.
So many ideas and really the effort and work came from women.
And then the guys would get the credit and you’re just, yes, my God, what just freaking happened here?
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s like, hello, that was my idea.
There’s.
Speaker 1
So many examples of that when you’re just like what happened when I’m like overseeing a group and it’s a mixed group, mixed genders and, and I, I just really make sure that I’m also making sure women are speaking because sometimes they need, we need to be drying out our sisters.
Speaker 2
As well.
Speaker 1
As as Dawn mentioned, it’s like we need to be modeling this as well, so.
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
Speaker 1
That’s how I’m feeling.
And then and so you, you might make progress, but maybe you might slide back into the good girl.
And that’s OK, we understand.
But you want to always be being your authentic self and trying to be your authentic self as much as possible.
Speaker 2
Absolutely, and healing the good girl means forgiving ourselves for the times we thought pleasing was safer and better than holding on to our own power.
And when we talk about power, I know Mary and I agree on this, we are not talking about power over.
We are talking about power within and power with one another.
The power over idea is old paradigm and it doesn’t serve anyone.
You can be kind and still fierce, loving and still firm.
A lot of people say that about me.
They’ll say, Oh my God, you’re the kindest person.
But you know, we, we know where we stand with you and we know that if you don’t want to do something, you will say it.
And they call my nickname is Boundary Queen.
So actually I’m very happy to have that one that that.
Speaker 1
My nickname is Straight Shooter the people.
Speaker 2
There you go.
Speaker 1
There you go and and people do come to me and they say I am coming to you for your advice or I want to explain this because I know you will tell me the truth.
Speaker 2
Yes, well, does.
Speaker 1
Anybody want, I mean, wouldn’t all of us want to be like that?
And then or boundary Queen it’s.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
Those are badges of honor.
They should be.
Speaker 2
Yes, they are.
Speaker 1
You should be handing those out.
Speaker 2
Yes, yes they are.
Yes, they are.
Thank you for pointing that out, Mary.
So now we’ve got a little bit of a practice for you as we do each episode.
And this is the Good Girl liberation ritual, and it’s about reclaiming your energy.
So if you would like, you can take a few deep and cleansing breaths and which with each breath you feel yourself feeling more relaxed and present.
Bring to mind one rule or expectation that you’ve outgrown.
For example, maybe in the past you said yes when you really, really didn’t want to because you didn’t want to hurt someone’s feelings.
Or it could be something else.
But think about some role or expectation that you’ve outgrown, and then you can speak it aloud.
This no longer defines me.
This is not who I am.
And you can place your hand over your heart and affirm I am safe, to be real, I am free to shine.
My energy belongs to me, and I no longer leak out my energy.
Now, with another breath, visualize yourself walking freely, radiant, grounded, and sovereign.
Speaker 1
And our closing blessing?
May we be women who are good not because we’re obedient, but because we’re awake.
Speaker 2
And may we break the rules that keep us small so that we can live in harmony with Truth, Earth, and our own Highest.
Speaker 1
Light your soul.
Fire knows the way.
Speaker 2
Farewell for now, dear soul sisters.
You can e-mail Mary.
Speaker 1
At mary@zenithhigh.com.
Speaker 2
Or me Dawn at dawn@newworldwomen.com.
Speaker 1
And this episode has been brought to you by Mary Zenith High and Spirit Flow Shamanic Study Program.
Speaker 2
And me Dawn Radiant Face 18 creator and Co founder of New World women.com.
Until next time.
Speaker 1
Be Angie, be out there and be don’t be a good.
Speaker 2
Girl, or be your own version of a good girl.
Speaker 1
Be your best version of a good.
Speaker 2
Girl bye bye, take good care.
Speaker 1
Hey Soul Fire Sisters, we hope you’ve enjoyed this episode.
Please share Soul Fire Sisters with your friends.
Speaker 2
Until we meet again, reflect on the changes you want to make, feel the fire in your soul, and live from that fire.
Speaker 1
Our world needs your passion, your gifts, your heart.
Don’t wait, do it now.
Whatever your it is, do it now.
Speaker 2
Let’s use our power to create a world we actually want to live in, a loving new world for ourselves and for future generations.
We’ve got this.